Unsolicited Advice

Thursday, December 07, 2006

Mainline, charismatics, fundamentalists and evangelicals: my take

Okay, now that I've freed up my UA blogger site (my little spiritual journey will continue on Wordpress) I can tend to some other things more in tune with this particular blog.

As I moved through my spiritual life, I went from mainline protestant to charismatic to fundamentalist to evangelical where I spend most of my spiritual time. I notice folks confusing these various labels so I'll go ahead and define what I mean by each.

Mainline denominational churches are the big ones. Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian and who am I missing? These are large denominations with many churches scattered throughout the U.S. and even around the world. They are characterized by having a fairly centralized governing body that runs relatively democratically. People in leadership are picked and elected mostly by the membership. While often characterized as being liberal, the character of each congregation can vary widely. The national voices may have a socially liberal agenda but local churches can be very conservative and some even may have a fundamental or charismatic flavor. Even though the governing structure and polity is radically different than most protestant churches, I'm sort of lumping Catholics into this category as well. What essentially makes a mainline denomination mainline is the level with which it assimilates into the mainstream culture. The vast majority of Americans feel comfortable going to mainline churches as the worship experience is reverent yet fairly relaxed. Each denomination had spiritually radical elements in their day, but those days appear to be past. Much nondenominational church growth today is at the expense of mainline denominations whose congregations age and dwindle, at least in the U.S. Aphron and Submissive Husband are two blogging friends who seem to fit into a mainline description. I do not mean to make such affiliation less in any way, but these two just seem very comfortable where they are.

Let's talk about charismatics for a bit. These probably represent the sharpest departure from the mainline church experience. While charismatics can be found in any denomination, they seem to be mostly found in certain Baptist churches and Pentecostal Churches. The prevailing theology revolves around the Holy Spirit and His manifestations. This is where you will hear people speaking in tongues, see healings and meet people claiming to be prophets. And yes, people having been slain in the spirit and looking like they are having psychotic episodes. Let's just day that these services are never dull! Lots of movement and lots of emotion. There is an appeal of the collective consciousness and the feeling of the Holy Spirit resting on people like tongues of fire. There is a freedom of expression that exists in these services that exists no where else. Worship is not just a passive event that congregants observe. Everyone is a participant. The charismatic experience is a very passionate one.

Our typical (white) U.S. church attendee has difficulty with the emotionality of a charismatic service. However, our black American brothers and sisters flourish in various charismatic-type church communities. No one falls asleep. Can I get an AMEN? These churches are governed more from the top-down and often a single person may hold most of the power within a particular church congregation. Discipline is going to be enforced and congregants are expected to tow the line.

Hmm. I don't know if I have any blogging friends who might be charismatics. I would suppose not, as they would have jumped in here a while back.

Okay, so let's go to the Fundamentalist side of things. You will find fundies in any denomination but more often in Baptist churches and nondenominational churches. Many charismatics are fundamentalist, but the reverse is not often true. Fundamentalists are known for subscribing to the view that the Bible is without error and is to be taken literally. Not always as literally as the larger culture may think, but very radically different from our mainline friends. Fundamentalists maintain fairly strict discipline. Whereas a mainline church will almost never kick a member out and readily accept anyone who wants as a member, fundamentalists are more restrictive in their membership and broader in their expectations. Our Amish friends represent a fairly strict representation of fundamentalism. However there are those who are more contemporary and more culturally and technologically literate. These are the folks most likely to clash with popular culture because they are relatively absolute and black & white in their thinking. Unlike charismatics who are governed by emotion, fundamentalists tend to be more rule-based. This makes them look intolerant and judgmental. These are the folks most likely to have descended from the folks who were ready to stone the adulteress or burn the witches. The Pharisees and puritans were fundamentalists.

I'm really working them over and shedding some harsh light on them. Let me soften it just a bit. Fundies serve an important function within the religious community. They are the most apt to retain those most basic and critical elements of the Christian faith. They are not afraid to talk about sin and consequences and true repentance. They are also not afraid of confrontation. No avoiders, here. They often do say some things that need to be said. My experience within modern fundamentalist congregations is that these folks are sharp and educated. They have Bibles and know how to use them. The Word of God is truly their sword. There are no true fundamentalists who have dull blades. Christian Husband is the best fundamental example among blogger friends I know. He is a sharp one.

But the most Bad-to-the-Bone fundie preacher I ever met was Bother Jed Smock and his wife, Sister Cindy. They traveled college campuses in the 1980's and they knew how to stir things up. If you ever knew him and listened to him, his story is free and worth reading. The man knows how to convict or at least plow up a reaction. He had absolutely no problems calling the young women on campus whores and the guys whore mongers. He had no problems looking a kid straight in the face and telling him he was destined for the LAKE OF FIRRRRE. I'll have to do an entry about him later. Actually you can visit a Wiki on him and learn an interesting thing or two about him. You'll never guess what denomination he belongs to. I surely wouldn't have.

A church service in a fundamentalist church will not look a lot different from say, an evangelical church. But the church service is not the sole focal point. The biggest differentiation I experienced was the...er...differentiation. Accountability is HUGE and so the demands and responsibilities are quite heavy. There are prayer groups, small groups and regular meetings amongst the members. The community was truly a close-knit one and it was rare to socialize outside of the fundamentalist circle. People could be invited in but stepping out socially (like dating someone from the outside) was very much discouraged.

My story is very close to getting into that part of my life, so I’ll save some of this for later. But my feelings are decidedly more mixed here than with any other group.

Finally there are what I identify as evangelicals. They can be found in any denomination and nondenominational churches. There may be elements of fundamentalism with the evangelical movement such as a fairly strict interpretation of scriptures. However, there is a more tolerant attitude towards the culture at large. Whereas a fundamentalist is more concerned with the Truth and Justice, and evangelical will emphasize getting people into the presence of God. The mainline experience is confined mostly to Sunday mornings, with significant amounts of social justice thrown in. My mainline friends are good Lutherans, Catholics and Methodists where evangelicals identify most with being good Christians. They are less closely tied with any particular denomination although I tend to see many of them gravitate towards the Baptist churches or nondenominational churches similarly aligned in theology. I have many internet friends that I recognize as probably being evangelical in orientation but FTN probably embodies as many of these characteristics as anyone else. Plus everyone who reads me knows him because he's much more popular than me. FTN can hold a firm line for himself while not alienating a diverse audience and being exceedingly accessible. The orientation is more enticement more than coercion. I see many of my Christian blogger friends fitting an evangelical description.

But the most Bad-to-the-Bone evangelical I've ever seen was the one and only Billy Graham. He has traveled every continent and around the world with the message of the gospel. He convicts without making a body feel accused. He brings the message of hope by going out into the world. No one has to become a member of his denomination to get saved. I do recognize his fundamentalist nature regarding scripture, and he does use it effectively. He has a gift.

I feel like I need to make some sort of chart or something comparing and contrasting these various flavors of Christianity. There are blends and blurs within these. My division of one type from another is a bit arbitrary and artificial. For instance I identify myself with evangelicals while also identifying with Methodists. However, my Methodism does not run terribly deep. I do like the Wesleyan set up, but the UMC theology is becoming less and less Bible based and more and more culturally subjective. Perhaps a Free Methodist church would be a good choice if one were close by. And I do know of one that is more charismatic that isn't too far away.

I have tried not to be too harsh on any of these four types even though I have definite preferences at the moment. But all played some important roles in my growth as a Christian and each contributed some measure of knowledge and wisdom.

D.

7 Comments:

  • Not too bad a 'taxonomy', Digger.

    I wouldn't group Catholics in with the 'mainline', altho I can understand why you would. Historically, Catholics have been 'ethnic outsiders', and their 'polity' is far from democratic.

    There is also a very strong 'charismatic' movement among Catholics, altho you wouldn't be surprised if I told you that it tends to be a bit more 'staid' these days than what you describe. Back in the 70s, tho, it was a good bit wilder-and-crazier, you can be sure.

    And, it's interesting - back when I was first getting involved in the charismatic movement, Baptist churches were about the least likely places for charismatics to land. In fact, several of my friends were kicked out of Baptist churches when it became known that they spoke in tongues. No doubt, those were more 'fundamentalist' than 'evangelical' Baptist churches.

    I don't think I'd lump the Amish, or other Anabaptists (ie, Mennonites, Brethren), under the 'fundamentalist' umbrella, either, but again, I understand why you would.

    I'm pretty sure FTN would agree with you that he's an evangelical; I wonder if XH would call himself 'fundamentalist' or not. . .

    Me, I'd call myself a charismatic Catholic, with evangelical leanings. Altho there are those who'd call me a 'fundamentalist' all the same. . .

    By Blogger Desmond Jones, at 12/08/2006 02:28:00 PM  

  • I just went by my own experience. Catholics will never fit neatly anywhere, but the ones that I knew and grew up were not very distinguishable from us protestants. Therefore, that's who they ended up grouped with.

    Charismatics, in my experience, are distinguished by the presence of tongues and other gifts of the Holy Spirit, and could fit otherwise into Evangelical or Fundamentalist groups.

    The major deliniation for me between evangelicals and fundamentalists were how involved or isolated the group is from the hometown culture. fundamentalists of any religion are more likely to be isolated and/or in conflict with their neighbors.

    I also didn't take regional differences into account. Here in Georgia there are still some congregations who are into handling rattle snakes and drinking poison who come closer to crazy than charismatic, IMO. And the mainline churches look much more evangelical than their northern counterparts.

    D.

    By Blogger Digger Jones, at 12/08/2006 08:05:00 PM  

  • Sorry I didn't get to comment on this post before the weekend. This was interesting to read. I hope a few more people comment on it; I'd love to see the thoughts of a few people that are more "unchurched."

    I talk with my friends about driving around and visiting different churches from time to time. And I mean churches from a variety of different backgrounds, in different cities. We get so comfortable and used to our own little class, our "denominations," that I think it would be great to experience some other things.

    I'm finding myself leaning towards the Emergent Church movement these past few years. I've wanted to go see Rob Bell's church in Grand Rapids sometime, actually. Field trip!

    Digger, I chuckled a bit that you wrote I'm more popular than you! Come on, you're the godfather of the clashing libido blog! :-)

    By Blogger FTN, at 12/11/2006 01:25:00 PM  

  • I actually completely and totally reject the label "fundamentalist" for myself. Fundamentalism is a theological/cultural movement in the Christian tradition that has several key components. First and foremost it is a counter-culture (if not outright anti-cultural) movement. A sort of "circle the wagons, boys, it's us vs them" attitude. The "we're the only ones being saved and it's our job to keep everyone else out" sort of thing.

    Which is not me.

    Second, it's not just that they believe the Bible to be infallible (many other groups do), but that they see it is always completely and totally literal. Which is why most fundamentalists are also extreme premillennialists. Which I am not. To do a proper exegesis of the scriptures you need to understand the type of literature you are dealing with -- and the scriptures are of several types. The same rules don't always apply.

    Instead of looking at it in terms of dividing up churches into groups, a better way is to look at in terms of theological movements and where particular groups fit. In the last few centuries these would include: rationalism, romanticism, marxism, liberal protestantism, modernism, neo-orthodoxy, feminism, post-modernism, liberation theology, black theology, postliberalism, evangelicalism, and fundamentalism.

    Where do I fit? I like to call myself a pre-modernist. Or I could maybe call my theology pre-enlightenment. Anyway, I basically see myself as holding to the super-rationalist ideas of early Christianity from late antiquity through the early middle ages. I believe that the enlightenment's confidence in human reason was misplaced and any theology created after that and affected by that will have some problems.

    For instance, fundamentalism tends to be very rationalist in some respects while being very anti-rationalist in others. It has tried to combat rationalism and it's children in liberal theology by co-opting it's own tools while denying it's results. Which is somewhat contradictory.

    So, while I DO hold to the infallibility of the scriptures I also generally hold to the two-fold understanding of the scriptures developed by Augustine: a liberal-fleshly-historical sense and a allegorical-mystical-spiritual. All with the standard caveat that nothing should be believed on the basis of a non-literal sense of Scripture so as to avoid eisegesis.

    But most importantly I believe you have to recognize that in many, many places scripture is silent. And where it is silent it is silent -- silence on it's own doesn't say anything.

    Catholics (and some other groups) fill silence from other sources and claim equal authority in these places as with the apostolic canon. Which I don't believe is valid, although it is heading in a better direction than many sola scriptura groups.

    Fundamentalists believe silence is always negative -- meaning that what is not explicitly allowed is prohibited. Many more liberal (and evangelical) churches believe that silence is always positive -- meaning that what is not explicitly denied is allowed.

    But both groups are reading something into Biblical silence that is not there. Where the Bible is silent it is silent -- it is not by default either negative or positive. Believing that the canon is the sole possessor of infallible authority does NOT mean that the Bible speaks authoritatively on every issue. Where it is silent one must exercise judgement. Which means flexing your mental muscles and doing some studying.

    Looking at church tradition -- especially early church tradition -- can help fill in some holes. Making logical extrapolations from where the Bible DOES speak is good. Simply using common sense is necessary at times. But in all of this one must recognize the different level of authority. Where the scripture is clear, it is clear and people should conform to that. Where it is vague, people should try to use their best judgment and still try to be objective exegetes instead of eisegetes, but everyone must allow for differences of opinion. Something that is of even greater importance where the scriptures are totally silent.

    If someone is reading something into silence that contradicts scripture in other areas, then that understanding should probably be discarded. But where it is just different than your understanding, you have to agree to disagree.

    None of us are morally perfect, but we can still be saved because we have a gracious God. By the same token, none of us are doctrinally perfect, but we can still be saved because we have a gracious God. He will forgive our doctrinal faults as he forgives our moral faults.

    But just like in our moral life we should not accept failures and sin we should not just accept doctrinal failures. In both worlds we should strive for perfection while recognizing that no one will ever reach it. In our dealings with other Christians who disagree with us we should remember that none of us can be expected to have it all exactly right, but that doesn't excuse a "I'm OK, you're OK" attitude as we should strive to do better, to correct what is obviously wrong, and to eventually -- hopefully -- speak the same thing and be unified in all things as Christ prayed for us to be.

    As far as discipline as it fits into these categories, you need to be careful. First of all, there is a big difference between holding church members to scriptural standards and trying to hold non-Christians to the same standards. The first is scripturally mandated while the latter is scripturally prohibited. So, your street preachers that call random college girls walking by "whores" are just as anti-Biblical as churches who say "do what you want, it doesn't matter."

    Besides, we are to do everything in Christian love and peace. So please, never again associate me with such unloving and unpeaceful people. Telling churches they should live up to their mandate of holding their members accountable is NOT the same as telling non-Christians they have to live by our standards.

    If it helps understand this, know that I am not a political conservative. When I vote, I vote libertarian. I am absolutely against banning gay marriage despite holding homosexuality to be a sin. But our standards are not the world's standards and forcing non-Christians to be moral is like taping cardboard wings onto a pig. It still won't fly.

    Alright, I've babbled enough. Gotta get back to work.

    By Blogger Christian Husband, at 12/11/2006 03:37:00 PM  

  • Well, FTN, I once referred to myself on iVillage as the Dean of the Clashing Libidos, having been there longer than anyone else. Or so it seemed. While it's good to visit other churches once in a while, it's also good to have a "home" to go back to.

    Well, XH, I knew you wouldn't like the label of fundamentalist but was counting on you not liking it well enough to give a good accounting. And as usual, you deliver the goods. I'm glad you were as thorough as you were for once, because it clarified a few things for me. Not the least of which was the fact that you're not associated with the same movement I was in. Reading Brother Jed's story, you get a basic idea of why he said and did the things he did. While his methods were controversial,he had a method to his madness. But you are correct that fundamentalists look at our culture and find it inherently corrupt moreso than any other group. But I hope you'll forgive me for not having sufficient background with pre-modernists to have any idea of what they are like on the street. I based your placement simply on the comments you've left and a few posts you've made in regards to marriage and other social issues where you sounded pretty much like the fundamentalists I knew very well.

    D.

    By Blogger Digger Jones, at 12/13/2006 07:17:00 PM  

  • You probably don't have much background with "pre-modernists" because I made that word up. But it fits what I personally believe more than any current term. To undo the damage of the enlightenment we kind of need to go back to ways of thinking that existed before it did.

    One can believe very strongly in things without being a fundamentalist. One can hold that Christians need to be submissive to God's will (instead of just following their own) without being a fundamentalist. One can believe we should study and follow the Bible without being a fundamentalist.

    I would hope that ALL those things are qualities that ALL Christians strive for, without going to the excesses and cliquishness that fundamentalists have.

    By Blogger Christian Husband, at 12/14/2006 10:24:00 AM  

  • Hadn't thought of Brother Jed in years. Yes, I remember him and Cindy from my years in college. However, I remember even better an evangelist that I only knew as Max. Max would preach on the quad day in and day out the first couple of years I was in college. It was quite popular for students to gather around, and whether or not they listened to anything Max said, to shout "Get a job, Max!" at him repeatedly. I think most students regarded Max as entertainment more than anything else. BTW, Max had way more personality than Jed ever could hope to have and never attracted the crowds that Max attracted.

    By Blogger Trueself, at 12/29/2006 03:59:00 PM  

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